Discussion:
WWII Recon Photos online
(too old to reply)
Jeff Barber
2004-01-18 06:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Howdy,

Looks like the Brits are about to put 5 million recon photos online
this coming Monday. Here's a link to the story I saw:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?
tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040117/ap_on_re_eu/britain_wwii_photos

Jeff Barber
Daniel Zucker
2004-01-18 12:47:41 UTC
Permalink
Jeff
could not find the story could you please be a little more specific on where the story is located?

Thanks
Daniel Z

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Barber" <jbarber-***@public.gmane.org>
To: <Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 1:23 AM
Subject: [ASLML] WWII Recon Photos online


: Howdy,
:
: Looks like the Brits are about to put 5 million recon photos online
: this coming Monday. Here's a link to the story I saw:
:
: http://news.yahoo.com/news?
: tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040117/ap_on_re_eu/britain_wwii_photos
:
: Jeff Barber
:
:
Mario Nadalini
2004-01-18 12:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Hi guys,

the direct link should be www.evidenceincamera.co.uk.

Gheba

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Barber" <jbarber-***@public.gmane.org>
To: <Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:23 AM
Subject: [ASLML] WWII Recon Photos online


> Howdy,
>
> Looks like the Brits are about to put 5 million recon photos online
> this coming Monday. Here's a link to the story I saw:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?
> tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040117/ap_on_re_eu/britain_wwii_photos
>
> Jeff Barber
>
David Reenstra
2004-01-19 16:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Hello all,

Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup of a scenario
after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot deal, once you
select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your overlays and terrain
transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like in VASL 3 you
could go back to this step if you realize you missed something even after you
started adding counters to the board.

Thanks,
Dave Reenstra
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-19 16:29:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dave,

I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1 running on my
machine...truth is I gave up.

But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control Window...looks
like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales you to the
board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the terrain/boards.

Hope this helps! Be well.

Seth


At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup of a scenario
>after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot deal, once you
>select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your overlays and terrain
>transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like in VASL 3 you
>could go back to this step if you realize you missed something even after you
>started adding counters to the board.
>
>Thanks,
>Dave Reenstra
Bruce Childs
2004-01-19 17:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Regarding vasl 4.1.1

Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the proper JAVA
platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which will provide
you with the neccessary software for FREE.

If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine, launching
vasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install VASSAL and vasl
4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.

worked for me and I can't do anything....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q


> Hi Dave,
>
> I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1 running on my
> machine...truth is I gave up.
>
> But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
Window...looks
> like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales you to the
> board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the terrain/boards.
>
> Hope this helps! Be well.
>
> Seth
>
>
> At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup of a
scenario
> >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot deal,
once you
> >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your overlays and
terrain
> >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like in VASL 3
you
> >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something even after
you
> >started adding counters to the board.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Dave Reenstra
>
>
>
>
David Myers
2004-01-19 16:43:55 UTC
Permalink
For both 1.2.3, 1.2.4, 1.3.1.1 with vasl 4.1.1 and 4.012 ...

There is a buttone next to the last from the right with 2 rectangles
(boards) and a little star click this and you can alter terrain.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Aslml-***@asl-forums.net]
On Behalf Of David Reenstra
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:06 AM
To: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q


Hello all,

Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup of a
scenario after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
deal, once you select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
overlays and terrain transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back?
Seems like in VASL 3 you could go back to this step if you realize you
missed something even after you started adding counters to the board.

Thanks,
Dave Reenstra
Daniel Zucker
2004-01-18 13:43:55 UTC
Permalink
Thanks got it to work by using un-wrapped line.

Daniel Z
m***@public.gmane.org
2004-01-19 18:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Hello Seth:

Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes with the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and near the top of the page you will see:

"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications can be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start ensures the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well as the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). » Read More

Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as part of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."

Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.

Take care,

Gerry

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Childs <***@gwi.net>
Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q

> Regarding vasl 4.1.1
>
> Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> proper JAVA
> platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> will provide
> you with the neccessary software for FREE.
>
> If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> VASSAL and vasl
> 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
>
> worked for me and I can't do anything....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth W Fancher" <***@mindspring.com>
> To: <***@triad.rr.com>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> running on my
> > machine...truth is I gave up.
> >
> > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> Window...looks
> > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> you to the
> > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> terrain/boards.>
> > Hope this helps! Be well.
> >
> > Seth
> >
> >
> > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > >Hello all,
> > >
> > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> of a
> scenario
> > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> deal,once you
> > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> overlays and
> terrain
> > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> in VASL 3
> you
> > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> even after
> you
> > >started adding counters to the board.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Dave Reenstra
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Mountain View Cottage
2004-01-19 18:33:26 UTC
Permalink
And, as some others have mentioned, it's a good
idea to dump all your pre-existing Java software,
and even VASL (save you game saves, of course,
and remember to match both your User ID and your
Password when you launch the new VASL).

I didn't do the dump/load, and had some minor problems,
until I manually dumped the older versions (without
a complete re-load of Java and the latest VASL).

I assume one can always get the older versions of Java
for applications that require them - I believe the Java
Site has the older versions archived. I know the link
for the older version of VASL has the older Java
bundled with it, so you're at no irretrievable loss
if you wax the whole kitty, but still want to go back
to the older version(s).

----- Original Message -----
From: <morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "Bruce Childs" <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
Cc: <Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q


Hello Seth:

Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes with
the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and near
the top of the page you will see:

"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications can
be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start ensures the
most current version of the application will be deployed, as well as the
correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). » Read More

Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as part of
J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."

Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.

Take care,

Gerry

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q

> Regarding vasl 4.1.1
>
> Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> proper JAVA
> platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> will provide
> you with the neccessary software for FREE.
>
> If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> VASSAL and vasl
> 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
>
> worked for me and I can't do anything....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> running on my
> > machine...truth is I gave up.
> >
> > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> Window...looks
> > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> you to the
> > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> terrain/boards.>
> > Hope this helps! Be well.
> >
> > Seth
> >
> >
> > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > >Hello all,
> > >
> > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> of a
> scenario
> > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> deal,once you
> > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> overlays and
> terrain
> > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> in VASL 3
> you
> > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> even after
> you
> > >started adding counters to the board.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Dave Reenstra
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Jeff Sewall
2004-01-19 18:47:00 UTC
Permalink
I just want to let Seth know that he is not alone. :-)

I've tried to install VASL 4.1 many times, and like Seth,
have given up. Installing Java Web Start is not the problem;
that part is easy.

The problem occurs near the end of the VASL install, when
it asks if I want to launch VASL. I've tried this both ways ---
immediately answering "yes", and also by answering "no"
and later bringing it up. In either case, I get an error message
that points to my *previous* VASL installation directory and
says it can't find VASL.mod.

Does anyone know where the "new" VASL files get installed?
Maybe if I can point it to the correct directory when I get the
error message.

Thanks,
Jeff Sewall
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-19 19:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Hey Jeff,

Thanks for the vocal support. I don't actually think that we are nearly
alone. Based on what I have seen/heard and the people I play with, the
vast majority of people can't get it to work either.

I am glad for the people who have it working, really. They'll have a hard
time playing against people who can't get it going though, since apparently
the different versions of Java are not compatible. So if you can only have
v4.1 or v4.0.12, I expect most will stick with what they know and can get
to work. Not to mention that since Java is actually used for other
applications besides VASL, many people may be reluctant or unable to just
uninstall all other versions of Java.

Be well.

Seth


At 01:47 PM 1/19/2004, Jeff Sewall wrote:
>I just want to let Seth know that he is not alone. :-)
>
>I've tried to install VASL 4.1 many times, and like Seth,
>have given up. Installing Java Web Start is not the problem;
>that part is easy.
>
>The problem occurs near the end of the VASL install, when
>it asks if I want to launch VASL. I've tried this both ways ---
>immediately answering "yes", and also by answering "no"
>and later bringing it up. In either case, I get an error message
>that points to my *previous* VASL installation directory and
>says it can't find VASL.mod.
>
>Does anyone know where the "new" VASL files get installed?
>Maybe if I can point it to the correct directory when I get the
>error message.
>
>Thanks,
>Jeff Sewall
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-19 18:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gerry,

Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?

I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go on
there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link to
start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded and
"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.

I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent. But I
actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all will
be well." Because it isn't.

Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.

Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.

Seth



At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
>Hello Seth:
>
>Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes with
>the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and
>near the top of the page you will see:
>
>"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications can
>be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start ensures
>the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well as
>the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). » Read More
>
>Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
>Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as part
>of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
>
>Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
>
>Take care,
>
>Gerry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
>Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
>Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
> > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> >
> > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > proper JAVA
> > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > will provide
> > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> >
> > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > VASSAL and vasl
> > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> >
> > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > running on my
> > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > >
> > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > Window...looks
> > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > you to the
> > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > terrain/boards.>
> > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > >
> > > Seth
> > >
> > >
> > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > >Hello all,
> > > >
> > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > of a
> > scenario
> > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > deal,once you
> > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > overlays and
> > terrain
> > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > in VASL 3
> > you
> > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > even after
> > you
> > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Dave Reenstra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
Brad Knoll
2004-01-19 22:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Seth

I had the exact same problem. Mine initially worked fine until I came
up with the idea of "Ill redo it because I want a fresh install". I
took me a day to get it to run bastardly, two days to get it to work
properly.

Does your VASL error message pop up and then the VASSAL engine loads and
you cant find the VASL.mod? Do a file search for VASL.mod. you will
find it and be able to do a manual load from that folder(hidden deep in
your computer). Kinda a pain but it works.

To get it to work properly I uninstalled everything. The went in and
manually deleted all the files that JAVA/VASL had setup that don't
delete on the uninstall. Figured this out when I
uninstalled/reinstalled a few times and same problem, then I knew files
were being left behind. When you figure out the directory were they are
be careful. You don't want to delete non java/vasl files that your
computer needs. I sorted the files by date in folder. Do this by
hitting "view" and scroll down to "details". Hit the date tab at the
top and it sorts everything by date. Some JAVA/VASL files are obvious,
so grab those and the other files that have the same date. Delete.
Cut and paste your board/overlay, scenario, saved game folders to to
your desktop. Uninstall all previous JAVA and VASL and go in and delete
the folders they were in. Create new VASL4 folder. Copy/paste your
board/overlay, blah blah files back in. reinstall JAVA v1.4.2_03 and
VASL 4.1 carefully reading and exploring all options so VASL4 goes to
the right folder. Should work.

Basically if you screwed up your first install like I did you have to
automatically and manually delete all traces of VASL and JAVA and do a
fresh install from absolute scratch.



Brad


"You know the world is fuct up when the best rapper is white, the best
golfer is black, France accuses other countries of being arrogant, and
Germany doesn't want to go to war"

-Unknown

-----Original Message-----
From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Aslml-***@asl-forums.net]
On Behalf Of Seth W Fancher
Sent: January 19, 2004 2:51 PM
To: morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org; Bruce Childs
Cc: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q

Hi Gerry,

Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?

I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go
on
there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link
to
start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded
and
"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.

I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent.
But I
actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all
will
be well." Because it isn't.

Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.

Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.

Seth



At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
>Hello Seth:
>
>Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes
with
>the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and
>near the top of the page you will see:
>
>"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications
can
>be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start
ensures
>the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well
as
>the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). > Read More
>
>Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
>Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as
part
>of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
>
>Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
>
>Take care,
>
>Gerry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
>Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
>Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
> > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> >
> > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > proper JAVA
> > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > will provide
> > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> >
> > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > VASSAL and vasl
> > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> >
> > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > running on my
> > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > >
> > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > Window...looks
> > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > you to the
> > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > terrain/boards.>
> > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > >
> > > Seth
> > >
> > >
> > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > >Hello all,
> > > >
> > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > of a
> > scenario
> > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > deal,once you
> > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > overlays and
> > terrain
> > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > in VASL 3
> > you
> > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > even after
> > you
> > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Dave Reenstra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-20 01:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi Brad,

I don't get any error message at all...it apparently thinks it is loading
and installing just fine. Only problem is, it's v4.0.12. When I try to
open a game or boards, it says "null" in the control window. But that's
the only error that I get.

Thanks though...glad yours is working.

Seth





At 05:54 PM 1/19/2004, Brad Knoll wrote:
>Seth
>
> I had the exact same problem. Mine initially worked fine until I came
>up with the idea of "Ill redo it because I want a fresh install". I
>took me a day to get it to run bastardly, two days to get it to work
>properly.
>
>Does your VASL error message pop up and then the VASSAL engine loads and
>you cant find the VASL.mod? Do a file search for VASL.mod. you will
>find it and be able to do a manual load from that folder(hidden deep in
>your computer). Kinda a pain but it works.
>
>To get it to work properly I uninstalled everything. The went in and
>manually deleted all the files that JAVA/VASL had setup that don't
>delete on the uninstall. Figured this out when I
>uninstalled/reinstalled a few times and same problem, then I knew files
>were being left behind. When you figure out the directory were they are
>be careful. You don't want to delete non java/vasl files that your
>computer needs. I sorted the files by date in folder. Do this by
>hitting "view" and scroll down to "details". Hit the date tab at the
>top and it sorts everything by date. Some JAVA/VASL files are obvious,
>so grab those and the other files that have the same date. Delete.
>Cut and paste your board/overlay, scenario, saved game folders to to
>your desktop. Uninstall all previous JAVA and VASL and go in and delete
>the folders they were in. Create new VASL4 folder. Copy/paste your
>board/overlay, blah blah files back in. reinstall JAVA v1.4.2_03 and
>VASL 4.1 carefully reading and exploring all options so VASL4 goes to
>the right folder. Should work.
>
>Basically if you screwed up your first install like I did you have to
>automatically and manually delete all traces of VASL and JAVA and do a
>fresh install from absolute scratch.
>
>
>
>Brad
>
>
>"You know the world is fuct up when the best rapper is white, the best
>golfer is black, France accuses other countries of being arrogant, and
>Germany doesn't want to go to war"
>
>-Unknown
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Aslml-***@asl-forums.net]
>On Behalf Of Seth W Fancher
>Sent: January 19, 2004 2:51 PM
>To: morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org; Bruce Childs
>Cc: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
>Hi Gerry,
>
>Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
>Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?
>
>I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go
>on
>there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
>loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link
>to
>start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
>automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded
>and
>"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.
>
>I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent.
>But I
>actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
>frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all
>will
>be well." Because it isn't.
>
>Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
>either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.
>
>Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.
>
>Seth
>
>
>
>At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> >Hello Seth:
> >
> >Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes
>with
> >the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and
> >near the top of the page you will see:
> >
> >"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications
>can
> >be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start
>ensures
> >the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well
>as
> >the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). > Read More
> >
> >Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
> >Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as
>part
> >of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
> >
> >Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
> >
> >Take care,
> >
> >Gerry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
> >Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
> >Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> > > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> > >
> > > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > > proper JAVA
> > > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > > will provide
> > > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> > >
> > > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > > VASSAL and vasl
> > > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> > >
> > > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Dave,
> > > >
> > > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > > running on my
> > > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > > >
> > > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > > Window...looks
> > > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > > you to the
> > > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > > terrain/boards.>
> > > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > > >
> > > > Seth
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > > >Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > > of a
> > > scenario
> > > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > > deal,once you
> > > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > > overlays and
> > > terrain
> > > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > > in VASL 3
> > > you
> > > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > > even after
> > > you
> > > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >Dave Reenstra
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
Brad Knoll
2004-01-20 03:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Seth,

Ever thought of having someone who knows what they are doing set it up
for u thru "Remote Assist" on MSN Messenger. Set up my buddies Outlook
Express on his computer from my house.

Brad


"You know the world is fuct up when the best rapper is white, the best
golfer is black, France accuses other countries of being arrogant, and
Germany doesn't want to go to war"

-Unknown

-----Original Message-----
From: Seth W Fancher [mailto:swfancher-***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: January 19, 2004 9:58 PM
To: Brad Knoll; Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: RE: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q

Hi Brad,

I don't get any error message at all...it apparently thinks it is
loading
and installing just fine. Only problem is, it's v4.0.12. When I try to

open a game or boards, it says "null" in the control window. But that's

the only error that I get.

Thanks though...glad yours is working.

Seth





At 05:54 PM 1/19/2004, Brad Knoll wrote:
>Seth
>
> I had the exact same problem. Mine initially worked fine until I
came
>up with the idea of "Ill redo it because I want a fresh install". I
>took me a day to get it to run bastardly, two days to get it to work
>properly.
>
>Does your VASL error message pop up and then the VASSAL engine loads
and
>you cant find the VASL.mod? Do a file search for VASL.mod. you will
>find it and be able to do a manual load from that folder(hidden deep in
>your computer). Kinda a pain but it works.
>
>To get it to work properly I uninstalled everything. The went in and
>manually deleted all the files that JAVA/VASL had setup that don't
>delete on the uninstall. Figured this out when I
>uninstalled/reinstalled a few times and same problem, then I knew files
>were being left behind. When you figure out the directory were they
are
>be careful. You don't want to delete non java/vasl files that your
>computer needs. I sorted the files by date in folder. Do this by
>hitting "view" and scroll down to "details". Hit the date tab at the
>top and it sorts everything by date. Some JAVA/VASL files are obvious,
>so grab those and the other files that have the same date. Delete.
>Cut and paste your board/overlay, scenario, saved game folders to to
>your desktop. Uninstall all previous JAVA and VASL and go in and delete
>the folders they were in. Create new VASL4 folder. Copy/paste your
>board/overlay, blah blah files back in. reinstall JAVA v1.4.2_03 and
>VASL 4.1 carefully reading and exploring all options so VASL4 goes to
>the right folder. Should work.
>
>Basically if you screwed up your first install like I did you have to
>automatically and manually delete all traces of VASL and JAVA and do a
>fresh install from absolute scratch.
>
>
>
>Brad
>
>
>"You know the world is fuct up when the best rapper is white, the best
>golfer is black, France accuses other countries of being arrogant, and
>Germany doesn't want to go to war"
>
>-Unknown
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org]
>On Behalf Of Seth W Fancher
>Sent: January 19, 2004 2:51 PM
>To: morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org; Bruce Childs
>Cc: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
>Hi Gerry,
>
>Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
>Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?
>
>I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go
>on
>there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
>loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link
>to
>start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
>automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded
>and
>"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.
>
>I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent.
>But I
>actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
>frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all
>will
>be well." Because it isn't.
>
>Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
>either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.
>
>Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.
>
>Seth
>
>
>
>At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> >Hello Seth:
> >
> >Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes
>with
> >the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
and
> >near the top of the page you will see:
> >
> >"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software
applications
>can
> >be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start
>ensures
> >the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well
>as
> >the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). > Read
More
> >
> >Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
> >Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as
>part
> >of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
> >
> >Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
> >
> >Take care,
> >
> >Gerry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
> >Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
> >Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> > > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> > >
> > > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > > proper JAVA
> > > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > > will provide
> > > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> > >
> > > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > > VASSAL and vasl
> > > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> > >
> > > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Dave,
> > > >
> > > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > > running on my
> > > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > > >
> > > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > > Window...looks
> > > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > > you to the
> > > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > > terrain/boards.>
> > > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > > >
> > > > Seth
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > > >Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > > of a
> > > scenario
> > > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > > deal,once you
> > > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > > overlays and
> > > terrain
> > > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > > in VASL 3
> > > you
> > > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > > even after
> > > you
> > > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >Dave Reenstra
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-20 04:35:31 UTC
Permalink
Nope. Numerous reasons, but most prominent:

1 - Someone who "knows what they are doing" with VASL is going to have no
idea what I am doing with the rest of my computer. So if he deletes 10
files to make VASL 4.1 work and in the process impacts a half dozen
applications that I actually need, then I have a bigger problem.

2 - I am actually pretty good with computers...never had a problem getting
previous versions of VASL to run or update, which is/was supposedly much
more difficult than this version. Frankly, if I can't install it then I
will vote with my feet and won't use it. VAASL 4.0.12 is perfectly
acceptable to me and everyone I play with.

3 - Unless someone who knows what they are doing is going to set it up on
another 500 computers then it is highly unlikely that many other people
will ever use this version. And since it has not been demonstrated that
you can easily run two versions, I'd prefer to stay with the majority (at
least in the case of people I know) who still use v4.0.12.

Sorry if I am starting to sound curt...not intentional. RK suggested
deleting the VASSALPreferences file and downloading again. Next day I have
several hours to fix things if that doesn't work, I will try it. Meantime,
I'll just keep rolling my v4.0 dicebot.

Be well.

Seth



At 10:03 PM 1/19/2004, Brad Knoll wrote:
>Seth,
>
>Ever thought of having someone who knows what they are doing set it up
>for u thru "Remote Assist" on MSN Messenger. Set up my buddies Outlook
>Express on his computer from my house.
>
>Brad
>
>
>"You know the world is fuct up when the best rapper is white, the best
>golfer is black, France accuses other countries of being arrogant, and
>Germany doesn't want to go to war"
>
>-Unknown
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Seth W Fancher [mailto:swfancher-***@public.gmane.org]
>Sent: January 19, 2004 9:58 PM
>To: Brad Knoll; Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: RE: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
>Hi Brad,
>
>I don't get any error message at all...it apparently thinks it is
>loading
>and installing just fine. Only problem is, it's v4.0.12. When I try to
>
>open a game or boards, it says "null" in the control window. But that's
>
>the only error that I get.
>
>Thanks though...glad yours is working.
>
>Seth
>
>
>
>
>
>At 05:54 PM 1/19/2004, Brad Knoll wrote:
> >Seth
> >
> > I had the exact same problem. Mine initially worked fine until I
>came
> >up with the idea of "Ill redo it because I want a fresh install". I
> >took me a day to get it to run bastardly, two days to get it to work
> >properly.
> >
> >Does your VASL error message pop up and then the VASSAL engine loads
>and
> >you cant find the VASL.mod? Do a file search for VASL.mod. you will
> >find it and be able to do a manual load from that folder(hidden deep in
> >your computer). Kinda a pain but it works.
> >
> >To get it to work properly I uninstalled everything. The went in and
> >manually deleted all the files that JAVA/VASL had setup that don't
> >delete on the uninstall. Figured this out when I
> >uninstalled/reinstalled a few times and same problem, then I knew files
> >were being left behind. When you figure out the directory were they
>are
> >be careful. You don't want to delete non java/vasl files that your
> >computer needs. I sorted the files by date in folder. Do this by
> >hitting "view" and scroll down to "details". Hit the date tab at the
> >top and it sorts everything by date. Some JAVA/VASL files are obvious,
> >so grab those and the other files that have the same date. Delete.
> >Cut and paste your board/overlay, scenario, saved game folders to to
> >your desktop. Uninstall all previous JAVA and VASL and go in and delete
> >the folders they were in. Create new VASL4 folder. Copy/paste your
> >board/overlay, blah blah files back in. reinstall JAVA v1.4.2_03 and
> >VASL 4.1 carefully reading and exploring all options so VASL4 goes to
> >the right folder. Should work.
> >
> >Basically if you screwed up your first install like I did you have to
> >automatically and manually delete all traces of VASL and JAVA and do a
> >fresh install from absolute scratch.
> >
> >
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >
> >"You know the world is fuct up when the best rapper is white, the best
> >golfer is black, France accuses other countries of being arrogant, and
> >Germany doesn't want to go to war"
> >
> >-Unknown
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
>[mailto:Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org]
> >On Behalf Of Seth W Fancher
> >Sent: January 19, 2004 2:51 PM
> >To: morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org; Bruce Childs
> >Cc: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
> >Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> >Hi Gerry,
> >
> >Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
> >Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?
> >
> >I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go
> >on
> >there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
> >loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link
> >to
> >start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
> >automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded
> >and
> >"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.
> >
> >I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent.
> >But I
> >actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
> >frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all
> >will
> >be well." Because it isn't.
> >
> >Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
> >either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.
> >
> >Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.
> >
> >Seth
> >
> >
> >
> >At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> > >Hello Seth:
> > >
> > >Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes
> >with
> > >the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
>and
> > >near the top of the page you will see:
> > >
> > >"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software
>applications
> >can
> > >be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start
> >ensures
> > >the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well
> >as
> > >the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). > Read
>More
> > >
> > >Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
> > >Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as
> >part
> > >of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
> > >
> > >Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
> > >
> > >Take care,
> > >
> > >Gerry
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
> > >Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
> > >Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> > >
> > > > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> > > >
> > > > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > > > proper JAVA
> > > > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > > > will provide
> > > > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> > > >
> > > > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > > > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > > > VASSAL and vasl
> > > > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> > > >
> > > > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > > > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Dave,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > > > running on my
> > > > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > > > Window...looks
> > > > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > > > you to the
> > > > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > > > terrain/boards.>
> > > > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seth
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > > > >Hello all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > > > of a
> > > > scenario
> > > > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > > > deal,once you
> > > > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > > > overlays and
> > > > terrain
> > > > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > > > in VASL 3
> > > > you
> > > > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > > > even after
> > > > you
> > > > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thanks,
> > > > > >Dave Reenstra
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
Kenn
2004-01-20 04:58:22 UTC
Permalink
OK, seeing all this conversation going on about how the new version is a
hassle, I thought that I might give it a go.

I had no problems doing this on Win XP Pro. the OS, not me ;-)

Here is a step by step of what I did:
1) Backup:
Using Windows explorer I did a <ctrl -c> <ctrl -v> of my
installations of vassal and vasl to make copies of the entire directories.
This was to facilitate reloading the VASL boards and overlays.

2) Remove:
I Used Control Panel to remove my old version 4 of VASL and then I
removed the old version of VASSAL.

3) Java:
Following that I loaded the new JRE 1.4.1 (which to date on my
laptop only fails to work with Bendata Heat and older code revisions of
Brocade SilkWorms). The actual executable is j2re-1_4_1_02-windows-i586.exe
and is 7.88 MB if anyone wants me to send it.

So far so good. Java break, if you will....

4) Install VASSAL:
I went out to the VASSAL site and clicked on their link. I did a
save as first, since I like to keep copies (VASL 2 anyone?). This installed
without a hitch.

5) Install VASL:
I went to the VASL site and clicked on the install link there (again
saving a copy). It loaded without any problems.

6) Maps:
I then copied the backup copy of the boards directory to the
VASSAL/boards directory.

7) Run:
A log file for a game of FF3 that I am playing.

Observations:
It took me about 30 minutes to do, 15 of which were the 'ole krupps
doing it's thing.
It was easy, and you should be able to follow my steps. <clip
facetious comment>
The VASSAL Semper Fi module no longer works.
I no longer have a separate VASL directory. That is fine with me. It
is easier to backup now.
My VASL 3.x still works. (I did a log for my ABTF CG I tonight)
I agree that I would not use remote access software to allow anyone
else to load it for me.



Kenn


-----Original Message-----
From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org [mailto:Aslml-***@asl-forums.net] On
Behalf Of Seth W Fancher
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:36 PM
To: Brad Knoll; Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [ASLML] Re: VASL and Remote Assist

Nope. Numerous reasons, but most prominent:

1 - Someone who "knows what they are doing" with VASL is going to have no
idea what I am doing with the rest of my computer. So if he deletes 10
files to make VASL 4.1 work and in the process impacts a half dozen
applications that I actually need, then I have a bigger problem.

2 - I am actually pretty good with computers...never had a problem getting
previous versions of VASL to run or update, which is/was supposedly much
more difficult than this version. Frankly, if I can't install it then I
will vote with my feet and won't use it. VAASL 4.0.12 is perfectly
acceptable to me and everyone I play with.

3 - Unless someone who knows what they are doing is going to set it up on
another 500 computers then it is highly unlikely that many other people
will ever use this version. And since it has not been demonstrated that
you can easily run two versions, I'd prefer to stay with the majority (at
least in the case of people I know) who still use v4.0.12.

Sorry if I am starting to sound curt...not intentional. RK suggested
deleting the VASSALPreferences file and downloading again. Next day I have
several hours to fix things if that doesn't work, I will try it. Meantime,
I'll just keep rolling my v4.0 dicebot.

Be well.

Seth
Owens, Michael S CPT
2004-01-19 19:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi guys,

If you had previously created a VASL shortcut (on your desktop or wherever) for 4.0.12 before, it will still point to 4.0.12. When you install 4.1 it should allow you to "create a desktop icon". The new icon defaults to "Java Web Start" but it points to VASL. You can rename it and change the icon the usual way to start 4.1.

Hope this helps.

--Mike


________________________________

From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org on behalf of Seth W Fancher
Sent: Mon 19-Jan-04 13:50
To: morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org; Bruce Childs
Cc: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q



Hi Gerry,

Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?

I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go on
there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link to
start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded and
"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.

I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent. But I
actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all will
be well." Because it isn't.

Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.

Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.

Seth



At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
>Hello Seth:
>
>Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes with
>the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and
>near the top of the page you will see:
>
>"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications can
>be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start ensures
>the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well as
>the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). » Read More
>
>Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
>Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as part
>of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
>
>Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
>
>Take care,
>
>Gerry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
>Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
>Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
> > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> >
> > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > proper JAVA
> > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > will provide
> > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> >
> > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > VASSAL and vasl
> > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> >
> > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> >
> > > Hi Dave,
> > >
> > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > running on my
> > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > >
> > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > Window...looks
> > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > you to the
> > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > terrain/boards.>
> > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > >
> > > Seth
> > >
> > >
> > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > >Hello all,
> > > >
> > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > of a
> > scenario
> > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > deal,once you
> > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > overlays and
> > terrain
> > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > in VASL 3
> > you
> > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > even after
> > you
> > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Dave Reenstra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-19 21:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Thanks, but no...been there and done that too, without joy. Also tried
starting from within the Java WebStart module through the Start menu, which
was supposed to work as well.




At 02:47 PM 1/19/2004, Owens, Michael S CPT wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>If you had previously created a VASL shortcut (on your desktop or
>wherever) for 4.0.12 before, it will still point to 4.0.12. When you
>install 4.1 it should allow you to "create a desktop icon". The new icon
>defaults to "Java Web Start" but it points to VASL. You can rename it and
>change the icon the usual way to start 4.1.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>--Mike
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Aslml-bounces-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org on behalf of Seth W Fancher
>Sent: Mon 19-Jan-04 13:50
>To: morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org; Bruce Childs
>Cc: Aslml-AM3YF4s/***@public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
>
>
>
>Hi Gerry,
>
>Would this be the program that is installed on my computer as "Java 2
>Runtime Environment, SE v1.4.2_03"?
>
>I do also have Java Web Start which works tremendously well. I can go on
>there, click my little VASL link, and Hey! Presto! VASL version 4.0.12
>loads up just beautifully. Same thing happens when I click on the link to
>start the application at VASL.org. Yeah, the application downloads
>automatically to update what you have....at this time I have downloaded and
>"upgraded" to version 4.0.12 about a half dozen times.
>
>I appreciate the attempt to help, I really do, and am sorry to vent. But I
>actually consider myself to be pretty good with computers, and it
>frustrates me no end when people keep saying "just click here and all will
>be well." Because it isn't.
>
>Fortunately, no one that I play with has managed to get v4.1 running
>either, so it really doesn't make much difference to us.
>
>Thanks for trying to help...and sorry to vent at you.
>
>Seth
>
>
>
>At 01:11 PM 1/19/2004, morrisgj-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> >Hello Seth:
> >
> >Bruce is right. You need something called Java Web Start which comes with
> >the lastest Java. Go to http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/ and
> >near the top of the page you will see:
> >
> >"With Java Web Start technology, standalone Java software applications can
> >be deployed with a single click over the network. Java Web Start ensures
> >the most current version of the application will be deployed, as well as
> >the correct version of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). » Read More
> >
> >Where Do You Get Java Web Start?
> >Java Web Start is included in the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) as part
> >of J2SE 1.4.2. Download now."
> >
> >Once you install the new Java, VASSAL/VASL install very easily.
> >
> >Take care,
> >
> >Gerry
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Bruce Childs <bc61-F7/***@public.gmane.org>
> >Date: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:37 am
> >Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> >
> > > Regarding vasl 4.1.1
> > >
> > > Before you can get this version to work, be sure you have the
> > > proper JAVA
> > > platform. The vasl.org site has a link to the JAVA site which
> > > will provide
> > > you with the neccessary software for FREE.
> > >
> > > If you have the proper JAVA platform installed on your machine,
> > > launchingvasl from the vasl.org site will automatically install
> > > VASSAL and vasl
> > > 4.1.1, though if you have a Mac, I cannot be sure of anything.
> > >
> > > worked for me and I can't do anything....
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Seth W Fancher" <swfancher-***@public.gmane.org>
> > > To: <vaslplayer-goaWJWIt5zpWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] VASL 4.1.1 Q
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Dave,
> > > >
> > > > I am still completely unable to download and get VASL 4.1
> > > running on my
> > > > machine...truth is I gave up.
> > > >
> > > > But, in Ver 4.0.12 at least, there is an icon in the Control
> > > Window...looks
> > > > like two connected rectangles...you click on that and it tales
> > > you to the
> > > > board setup screen, where I have been able to modify the
> > > terrain/boards.>
> > > > Hope this helps! Be well.
> > > >
> > > > Seth
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 11:05 AM 1/19/2004, David Reenstra wrote:
> > > > >Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > >Anyone know if there is a way to alter the board/terrain setup
> > > of a
> > > scenario
> > > > >after it has been done the first time? Or is it now a one shot
> > > deal,once you
> > > > >select the boards and orient and crop them, choose your
> > > overlays and
> > > terrain
> > > > >transformations and hit "Done", you can't go back? Seems like
> > > in VASL 3
> > > you
> > > > >could go back to this step if you realize you missed something
> > > even after
> > > you
> > > > >started adding counters to the board.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >Dave Reenstra
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
r***@public.gmane.org
2004-01-19 23:12:09 UTC
Permalink
If you've gotten as far as "VASL.mod not found" you really are
almost all the way. I suspect you're then selecting the VASL.mod from
your previous installation, which is 4.0.12.

This'll soon be improved, but right now if your first installation
attempt at VASL 4.1 gets lost (e.g. installed into a directory and
then deleted) you have to force a re-install by deleting a file named
.VassalPreferences which is automatically placed in your Personal or
Documents folder. Running VASL again after that will prompt again to
select a folder to extract everything into.

rk
ron mosher
2004-01-19 23:29:48 UTC
Permalink
At 03:12 PM 1/19/2004, rodneykinney-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
>This'll soon be improved, but right now if your first installation
>attempt at VASL 4.1 gets lost (e.g. installed into a directory and
>then deleted) you have to force a re-install by deleting a file named
>.VassalPreferences which is automatically placed in your Personal or
>Documents folder. Running VASL again after that will prompt again to
>select a folder to extract everything into.

rk,

This is part of my problem with the new system. It installs bits and pieces
all over my PC with no input from me as to where it goes.

Also, I like to work off line with VASL for PBEM games. Well, I have to
'cause my wife and daughter are using my on-line PC for their projects. So
I go to my other machine and do my PBEM games and squeeze on the family
machine to send them. Can't do this now...no 4.1 on the other machine :(


For the nonce,
ron
acerbic curmudgeon and lowly priest in the High Holy Church of ASL
Sam Belcher
2004-01-19 23:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Rodney wrote:

> If you've gotten as far as "VASL.mod not found" you really are
> almost all the way. I suspect you're then selecting the VASL.mod from
> your previous installation, which is 4.0.12.
>
> This'll soon be improved, but right now if your first installation
> attempt at VASL 4.1 gets lost (e.g. installed into a directory and
> then deleted) you have to force a re-install by deleting a file named
> .VassalPreferences which is automatically placed in your Personal or
> Documents folder. Running VASL again after that will prompt again to
> select a folder to extract everything into.

*amnmit, man! I want my money back!!! ;)
Tom Weniger
2004-01-19 23:59:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 16:41, Sam Belcher wrote:
> Rodney wrote:
>
> > If you've gotten as far as "VASL.mod not found" you really are
> > almost all the way. I suspect you're then selecting the VASL.mod from
> > your previous installation, which is 4.0.12.
> >
> > This'll soon be improved, but right now if your first installation
> > attempt at VASL 4.1 gets lost (e.g. installed into a directory and
> > then deleted) you have to force a re-install by deleting a file named
> > .VassalPreferences which is automatically placed in your Personal or
> > Documents folder. Running VASL again after that will prompt again to
> > select a folder to extract everything into.
>
> *amnmit, man! I want my money back!!! ;)
>
Greetings All,

Why don't you reformat your hard drive and reinstall your M$ OS.
Otherwise known as using your virus scanner...

Bwaaa-ha-ha-ha!

--
Virtually,
Tom W
Linux Registered User #243493
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-20 02:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the suggestion Rodney!

As I mentioned in the other message, I don't get the "VASL.mod not found"
error...in fact everything seems to work fine...other than the fact that
the VASL version is wrong and I can't open or create new scenarios. I did
locate the VASSALPreferences file you mentioned. I am on the fence right
now...last time I deleted files and tried to get ver 4.1 to work it took me
3 days to get any version of VASL working again. I am very afraid of doing
the same again.

I will try re-installing after deleting that file, but it will be several
days at least...to a time when I feel like I have 6 hours to spare in case
it doesn't work and I need to undo everything. Like I said, everyone I
know is still playing with ver 4.0.12, so if getting 4.1 is going to in any
way impact that (and right now the odds appear to favor that IME), I'm not
willing to take the chance. I will let you know if it works though if/when
I get the nerve to try it again.

I feel that I should say "thanks" though, because for all this b*itching
and moaning, I probably sound like a complete ingrate. I really appreciate
all that you have done with VASL...in large part, I am content to wait to
"upgrade" because I am quite happy to work with the earlier version. It
has some bugs, but it's still awesome. Thanks for all your work and
dedication!

Seth






At 06:12 PM 1/19/2004, rodneykinney-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> If you've gotten as far as "VASL.mod not found" you really are
>almost all the way. I suspect you're then selecting the VASL.mod from
>your previous installation, which is 4.0.12.
>
> This'll soon be improved, but right now if your first installation
>attempt at VASL 4.1 gets lost (e.g. installed into a directory and
>then deleted) you have to force a re-install by deleting a file named
>.VassalPreferences which is automatically placed in your Personal or
>Documents folder. Running VASL again after that will prompt again to
>select a folder to extract everything into.
>
> rk
Sam Belcher
2004-01-20 22:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Getting ready to play "First to Strike" from Streets of Fire. This is an
older scenario, an looks dead even in ROAR. I have an opinion question...

The VC state that the Germans must "solely control" a number of buildings to
win. This phrase appears in a few of the older scenarios - made before we
all became so warped as to insist that all terms be defined in the index. :)

How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?

1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
building)

2. Building control AND there can be no enemy units in the building

3. Some other definition???


My "gut" tells me that "sole" control implies that no enemy can be present
in the building to win, but of course, this is not defined in the ASL rules.
My feeling is that if you interpret this as "building control" then you make
it too easy for the attacker.

BTW, this phrase also appears in "To the Last Man" VC.

Thanks
Sam
Seth W Fancher
2004-01-21 02:27:41 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Rodney, you nailed it!

I deleted the .VassalPreferences folder, went back online and everything
ran just fine.

But that is only while I am online. When I am not logged on, I get an
error message. I remember this coming up from before, so know there is an
answer to it. Will look on vasl.org to see what it has to offer.

Thanks for your help. Anyone else out there having a hard time, try
deleting the .VassalPreferences file and clicking on the link online to
re-install.

Seth


At 06:12 PM 1/19/2004, rodneykinney-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> If you've gotten as far as "VASL.mod not found" you really are
>almost all the way. I suspect you're then selecting the VASL.mod from
>your previous installation, which is 4.0.12.
>
> This'll soon be improved, but right now if your first installation
>attempt at VASL 4.1 gets lost (e.g. installed into a directory and
>then deleted) you have to force a re-install by deleting a file named
>.VassalPreferences which is automatically placed in your Personal or
>Documents folder. Running VASL again after that will prompt again to
>select a folder to extract everything into.
>
> rk
Tuline, Andrew
2004-01-20 00:57:33 UTC
Permalink
For sale,

1 slightly used workstation.


Main Features:

- Reasonable hardware specs . . . .
- It has WORKING VASL 4.0.12 and 4.1.1, with maps and scenarios already
downloaded in separate directories.



Taking bids on this beauty starting at $5,000 CDN.


I'll forward 25% of the proceeds to the Mike Rowe defense fund.



:D


Andrew "it works for me" Tuline
Ulric Schwela
2004-01-22 18:08:02 UTC
Permalink
--- "Tuline, Andrew" <AndrewTuline-YakTs/zEaSG/3pe1ocb+swC/***@public.gmane.org> skrev:
> For sale,
>
> 1 slightly used workstation.
>
> Main Features:
>
> - Reasonable hardware specs . . . .
> - It has WORKING VASL 4.0.12 and 4.1.1, with maps and scenarios already
> downloaded in separate directories.
>
> Taking bids on this beauty starting at $5,000 CDN.
>
> I'll forward 25% of the proceeds to the Mike Rowe defense fund.
>
> :D
>
> Andrew "it works for me" Tuline


Wanted :

- Any computer with any operating system.
- Must be capable of running VASL 4.0.12 and 4.1.1 at reasonable speed.
- Being pre-loaded with VASL including maps et c. not essential, but
preferred.

Will part-exchange with a not too old laptop impounded by my IT department
for trying to trash the company network. A hacker tampered with the laptop
system while I was playing VASL at home over a simple ISP connection.

I think the old laptop is worth $5000 wouldn't you say? ;) Well, Hong Kong
Dollars at least...

P.S. what does "CDN" stand for? I can't find it in the Index... Critical
Desperation Number?

Cheers



=====
--
Ulric Schwela
St. Helens, Lancashire, England
GSM +447753857878
Currently NOT playing: (no VASL! argh!!)
A16 - On The Borderline - Finnish - 4/12
D8 - Gruppo Mobile - Italian - 2/5
OVHS CG - 19 AM - Canadian - 4/9
RB - CGIII - Soviet - 18-Oct - 4/8
TOT37 - Breaching Maloarkhangelsk - German - 4/11.5

Höstrusk och grå moln - köp en resa till solen på Yahoo! Resor på adressen http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html
Bruce Bakken
2004-01-20 22:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Sam.

>
>Getting ready to play "First to Strike" from Streets of Fire. This is an
>older scenario, an looks dead even in ROAR. I have an opinion question...
>
>The VC state that the Germans must "solely control" a number of buildings
>to
>win. This phrase appears in a few of the older scenarios - made before we
>all became so warped as to insist that all terms be defined in the index.
>:)
>
>How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?
>

To me, this means Building Control, per A26.14.

>1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
>building)
>

Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled." (A26.14).
Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by occupying it with an
armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence of an armed enemy ground
unit... in that same... building." If an enemy unit is present in the
building, you do not control it.

>2. Building control AND there can be no enemy units in the building
>

If you control the building, by definition there can be no enemy units in
the building. See above.

>3. Some other definition???
>
>
>My "gut" tells me that "sole" control implies that no enemy can be present
>in the building to win, but of course, this is not defined in the ASL
>rules.
>My feeling is that if you interpret this as "building control" then you
>make
>it too easy for the attacker.
>

It's not defined? Yes it is: A26.14 referring to the conditions of A26.11.
Makes sense to me...

I played this scenario a long time ago. Really enjoyed it; lost as the
Germans.

>BTW, this phrase also appears in "To the Last Man" VC.
>
>Thanks
>Sam
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Tycho Granville
2004-01-20 22:53:10 UTC
Permalink
>To me, this means Building Control, per A26.14.

>>1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
>>building)
>>

Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled." (A26.14).
Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by occupying it with an
armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence of an armed enemy ground
unit... in that same... building." If an enemy unit is present in the
building, you do not control it.

>>

Thought it was "no armed, *Good Order*, enemy unit" (emphasis added). Or am
I mixing up V1 and V2 of The Rules?

Tycho
Sam Belcher
2004-01-20 23:46:28 UTC
Permalink
> Thought it was "no armed, *Good Order*, enemy unit" (emphasis added). Or
> am I mixing up V1 and V2 of The Rules?

To quote from an unpublished article I'm writing....

"A side gains control by occupation with an armed Good Order Infantry MMC -
without the presence of an armed enemy ground unit in that same location /
hex / building. Note the difference. To gain control, you must be Good Order
and you must be an MMC, but to prevent your opponent from gaining control
you only have to be "armed" and a "unit". So you can't gain control with a
Leader or Hero, but a broken, DM, Wounded 6+1 can keep you from gaining
control!"

Sam
Chuck T
2004-01-20 22:54:54 UTC
Permalink
the thing is...you can gain control of a building......and then have
enemy units present in the building later and STILL control the
building....which i thin is why the question is being asked....

looks like we need a perry sez to say "solely occupy" or "control building"

Chuck

Bruce Bakken wrote:
> Hi, Sam.
>
>>
>> Getting ready to play "First to Strike" from Streets of Fire. This is an
>> older scenario, an looks dead even in ROAR. I have an opinion question...
>>
>> The VC state that the Germans must "solely control" a number of
>> buildings to
>> win. This phrase appears in a few of the older scenarios - made before we
>> all became so warped as to insist that all terms be defined in the
>> index. :)
>>
>> How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?
>>
>
> To me, this means Building Control, per A26.14.
>
>> 1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
>> building)
>>
>
> Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
> Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
> building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled."
> (A26.14). Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by
> occupying it with an armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence
> of an armed enemy ground unit... in that same... building." If an enemy
> unit is present in the building, you do not control it.
>
>> 2. Building control AND there can be no enemy units in the building
>>
>
> If you control the building, by definition there can be no enemy units
> in the building. See above.
>
>> 3. Some other definition???
>>
>>
>> My "gut" tells me that "sole" control implies that no enemy can be
>> present
>> in the building to win, but of course, this is not defined in the ASL
>> rules.
>> My feeling is that if you interpret this as "building control" then
>> you make
>> it too easy for the attacker.
>>
>
> It's not defined? Yes it is: A26.14 referring to the conditions of
> A26.11. Makes sense to me...
>
> I played this scenario a long time ago. Really enjoyed it; lost as the
> Germans.
>
>> BTW, this phrase also appears in "To the Last Man" VC.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Sam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here.
> https://broadband.msn.com
>
>
Sam Belcher
2004-01-20 23:42:27 UTC
Permalink
> looks like we need a perry sez to say "solely occupy" or "control
> building"

FWIW, I once asked Perry regarding "To the Last Man", which has similar VC.
His answer was "Building Control".

My point in asking is that I'm curious how OTHERs would interpret this
phrase if Perry weren't supplying the answer.

My "feeling" is that the intent of the scenario designers was that there be
no enemy units in the building. i.e. "solely occupy" or "control the
building AND be the only side occupying the building".

Perry's answer was that we can't guess at the designer's intent. My question
is to try to determine if others feel the same way I do...

Sam
Bruce Probst
2004-01-21 00:16:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:42:27 -0800, "Sam Belcher"
<sambelcher-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>My question is to try to determine if others feel the same way I do...

Since you asked: no. Regular ol' "Building Control" looks pretty good to
me.

My attitude would be that if the scenario VC means "no enemy units in the
building at all, period" than it damn well needs to say so, in that many
words.

To "solely control" a building means that only one of you controls it.
Since the way the rules work means that "dual control" of a building is in
fact impossible, this is simply a case of poor VC wording in an early
scenario due to unfamiliarity with the rules. No need for retroactive
telepathy with the ghost of the scenario designer.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst-***@public.gmane.org
Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759
"Why do you hate my groin so much?"
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
PerryCocke
2004-01-21 13:41:54 UTC
Permalink
<<Chuck asked>>

> looks like we need a perry sez to say "solely occupy" or "control
> building"

<<Sam replied:>

FWIW, I once asked Perry regarding "To the Last Man", which has similar VC.
His answer was "Building Control".

My point in asking is that I'm curious how OTHERs would interpret this
phrase if Perry weren't supplying the answer.

My "feeling" is that the intent of the scenario designers was that there be
no enemy units in the building. i.e. "solely occupy" or "control the
building AND be the only side occupying the building".

Perry's answer was that we can't guess at the designer's intent. My question
is to try to determine if others feel the same way I do...

Sam

<<and Tate replied:>

> The term "sole control" is simple laziness. The designer didn't want to go
> to the trouble to explain what was meant. In fact, there is no other way
to
> control a building other than "solely" since only one side or the other
> will control the building.
>
> I suspect the designer _intended_ that not only must control the building
> but that no enemy units can be in the controlled building. Unfortunately
> "sole control" is not nearly enough to say that.

<<and Bruce replied:>

To "solely control" a building means that only one of you controls it.
Since the way the rules work means that "dual control" of a building is in
fact impossible, this is simply a case of poor VC wording in an early
scenario due to unfamiliarity with the rules. No need for retroactive
telepathy with the ghost of the scenario designer.

<<and Perry comments:>

<<I do not think that these designers were looking for an especially tough
VC. I would not accuse them of laziness either. I think they were just
trying to deal with how the Control rules were originally written (before
any Q&A, before any errata, before any replacement pages, and before the 2nd
Edition) and were searching for some better way to express their intention.
I urge anyone playing these scenarios to use the current building Control
rules. Do not require that the building be devoid of enemy units.>>

<<Perry>>
Sam Belcher
2004-01-22 22:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Looking at playing "Himmler's House" after we finish "First to Strike" - on
a little Deluxe trend here...

The setup instructions for the Germans seem to have a problem. Germans setup
on / Southeast of the road.... ... cH5 - cH1 - cH0 ...

The road from cH5 to cH1 can go thro cF3 or cJ3 - which is it?

Thanks
Sam
Airius
2004-01-23 05:25:46 UTC
Permalink
It is the side without the intersection, if it were
meant to be the side with the intersection, the
intersection would be listed.

-Wes Wagner

--- Sam Belcher <sambelcher-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Looking at playing "Himmler's House" after we finish
> "First to Strike" - on
> a little Deluxe trend here...
>
> The setup instructions for the Germans seem to have
> a problem. Germans setup
> on / Southeast of the road.... ... cH5 - cH1 - cH0
> ...
>
> The road from cH5 to cH1 can go thro cF3 or cJ3 -
> which is it?
>
> Thanks
> Sam
>
>
>


__________________________________
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PerryCocke
2004-01-23 06:26:39 UTC
Permalink
What Wes said.

....Perry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Airius" <airius-/***@public.gmane.org>
To: "Sam Belcher" <sambelcher-***@public.gmane.org>; <***@asl-forums.net>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ASLML] J89 - Himmler's House Question


> It is the side without the intersection, if it were
> meant to be the side with the intersection, the
> intersection would be listed.
>
> -Wes Wagner
>
> --- Sam Belcher <sambelcher-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Looking at playing "Himmler's House" after we finish
> > "First to Strike" - on
> > a little Deluxe trend here...
> >
> > The setup instructions for the Germans seem to have
> > a problem. Germans setup
> > on / Southeast of the road.... ... cH5 - cH1 - cH0
> > ...
> >
> > The road from cH5 to cH1 can go thro cF3 or cJ3 -
> > which is it?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sam
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
>
Sam Belcher
2004-01-23 19:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi, folks...

Eric Henyey and I are playing "First to Strike" (Deluxe scenario 4). An SSR
defines two buildings as factories and then states:

"Hex bC4 contains a 2nd level building Location in that hex only. All other
multi-hex, non-factory buildings contain ground/1st level only with an
inherent stairwell in each hex (B23.22)."

OK, I read this and say to my self - the only level 2 location on the map is
hex bC4. But... There is a single hex building with a stairwell symbol in it
(bK3). Eric thinks that this hex still contains a second level. What say the
experts...

Am I nuts, or what?

Sam
Bruce Probst
2004-01-28 13:10:51 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 11:16:29 -0800, "Sam Belcher"
<sambelcher-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>"Hex bC4 contains a 2nd level building Location in that hex only. All other
>multi-hex, non-factory buildings contain ground/1st level only with an
>inherent stairwell in each hex (B23.22)."
>
>OK, I read this and say to my self - the only level 2 location on the map is
>hex bC4. But... There is a single hex building with a stairwell symbol in it
>(bK3). Eric thinks that this hex still contains a second level. What say the
>experts...

Well, if it's a single-hex building, then it *isn't* a multi-hex building.
And if it isn't a multi-hex building, the SSR isn't saying diddly-squat
about it. So it's business as usual for that building -- it has a second
level.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst-***@public.gmane.org
Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759
"Perhaps booze would alleviate this situation."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Chuck T
2004-01-20 22:56:06 UTC
Permalink
"solely control" is not defined in the ASLRB that I see either


more cents.

Chuck

Bruce Bakken wrote:

> Hi, Sam.
>
>>
>> Getting ready to play "First to Strike" from Streets of Fire. This is an
>> older scenario, an looks dead even in ROAR. I have an opinion question...
>>
>> The VC state that the Germans must "solely control" a number of
>> buildings to
>> win. This phrase appears in a few of the older scenarios - made before we
>> all became so warped as to insist that all terms be defined in the
>> index. :)
>>
>> How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?
>>
>
> To me, this means Building Control, per A26.14.
>
>> 1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
>> building)
>>
>
> Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
> Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
> building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled."
> (A26.14). Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by
> occupying it with an armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence
> of an armed enemy ground unit... in that same... building." If an enemy
> unit is present in the building, you do not control it.
>
>> 2. Building control AND there can be no enemy units in the building
>>
>
> If you control the building, by definition there can be no enemy units
> in the building. See above.
>
>> 3. Some other definition???
>>
>>
>> My "gut" tells me that "sole" control implies that no enemy can be
>> present
>> in the building to win, but of course, this is not defined in the ASL
>> rules.
>> My feeling is that if you interpret this as "building control" then
>> you make
>> it too easy for the attacker.
>>
>
> It's not defined? Yes it is: A26.14 referring to the conditions of
> A26.11. Makes sense to me...
>
> I played this scenario a long time ago. Really enjoyed it; lost as the
> Germans.
>
>> BTW, this phrase also appears in "To the Last Man" VC.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Sam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here.
> https://broadband.msn.com
>
>
Sam Belcher
2004-01-20 23:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Bruce, my son... you are wrong.

> >1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
> >building)
> >
>
> Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
> Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
> building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled." (A26.14).
> Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by occupying it with
> an
> armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence of an armed enemy
> ground
> unit... in that same... building." If an enemy unit is present in the
> building, you do not control it.

Most definitely NOT true, but a common misconception.

Once I've occupied the building - and no enemy are present - I control it.
After that, an enemy can move into the building - but I continue to control
it as long as I have ANYONE in there with him...

You can control the building - and there can be enemy units in the
building...

Trust me. I'm right on this.

Sam
Martin Snow
2004-01-21 16:13:28 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Bruce Bakken wrote:

> >How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?
>
> To me, this means Building Control, per A26.14.
>

The VC terminology on old scenarios isn't always tight. The original
(ASL) version of Guards Counterattack also used "sole control" in the VC,
but MMP updated it to Building Control when it was re-released in ASL
Classic (available for download on the MMP web page).

So I think other scenarios that say "sole control" should also be
interpreted as building control.


Martin Snow <*>
snowm-***@public.gmane.org
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/Home.html
Bruce Bakken
2004-01-20 23:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Sam.

>
>Once I've occupied the building - and no enemy are present - I control it.
>After that, an enemy can move into the building - but I continue to control
>it as long as I have ANYONE in there with him...
>

Yes, of course you're correct. Once you gain control, you retain it until
the opponent gains control.

>You can control the building - and there can be enemy units in the
>building...
>

Yep, you're right.

Now, going back to your original question...

I don't have a 1st Ed. handy, perhaps the control wording there will shed
some light on the intent of "sole control". Seems to me that "sole control"
means the very stringent application of "and no enemy units in the
building", but of course I don't know that for sure.

Bruce Bakken

_________________________________________________________________
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Scott Jackson
2004-01-21 01:09:20 UTC
Permalink
>Getting ready to play "First to Strike" from Streets of Fire. This is an
>older scenario, an looks dead even in ROAR. I have an opinion question...
>
>The VC state that the Germans must "solely control" a number of buildings
>to
>win. This phrase appears in a few of the older scenarios - made before we
>all became so warped as to insist that all terms be defined in the index.
>:)
>
>How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?
>
>1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
>building)
>
>2. Building control AND there can be no enemy units in the building
>
>3. Some other definition???
>
>
>My "gut" tells me that "sole" control implies that no enemy can be present
>in the building to win, but of course, this is not defined in the ASL
>rules.
>My feeling is that if you interpret this as "building control" then you
>make
>it too easy for the attacker.
>
>BTW, this phrase also appears in "To the Last Man" VC.


I agree with you, Sam. I would consider using the interpretation that will
best 'balance' the game, after considering player skill levels and it's ROAR
balance.

Scott Jackson
aka Stonewall

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Scott Jackson
2004-01-21 01:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Trust him...Sam is right about this.

Scott Jackson
aka Stonewall


>From: "Sam Belcher" <sambelcher-***@public.gmane.org>
>To: "'Bruce Bakken'" <bebakken-***@public.gmane.org>,<***@asl-forums.net>
>Subject: RE: [ASLML] A control question
>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:39:08 -0800
>
>Bruce, my son... you are wrong.
>
> > >1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
> > >building)
> > >
> >
> > Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
> > Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
> > building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled." (A26.14).
> > Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by occupying it with
> > an
> > armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence of an armed enemy
> > ground
> > unit... in that same... building." If an enemy unit is present in the
> > building, you do not control it.
>
>Most definitely NOT true, but a common misconception.
>
>Once I've occupied the building - and no enemy are present - I control it.
>After that, an enemy can move into the building - but I continue to control
>it as long as I have ANYONE in there with him...
>
>You can control the building - and there can be enemy units in the
>building...
>
>Trust me. I'm right on this.
>
>Sam
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Tate Rogers
2004-01-21 02:45:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:43 PM, Bruce Bakken
[SMTP:bebakken-***@public.gmane.org] wrote:
> Hi, Sam.
>
> >
> >Getting ready to play "First to Strike" from Streets of Fire. This is an
> >older scenario, an looks dead even in ROAR. I have an opinion
question...
> >
> >The VC state that the Germans must "solely control" a number of
buildings
> >to
> >win. This phrase appears in a few of the older scenarios - made before
we
> >all became so warped as to insist that all terms be defined in the
index.
> >:)
> >
> >How do you interpret "solely control" with regard to a building?
> >
>
> To me, this means Building Control, per A26.14.
>
> >1. Building control (which would allow enemy units to be present in the
> >building)
> >
>
> Huh? To control a Building, you must first have "an armed, Good Order
> Infantry MMC at any non-rooftop, non-subterranean level of any hex of a
> building... as long as the conditions of 26.11 are fulfilled." (A26.14).

> Per A26.11, "a side gains Control of a ... building by occupying it with
an
> armed Good Order Infantry MMC without the presence of an armed enemy
ground
> unit... in that same... building." If an enemy unit is present in the
> building, you do not control it.
>
> >2. Building control AND there can be no enemy units in the building
> >
>
> If you control the building, by definition there can be no enemy units in

> the building. See above.

FYI...

When one gains control of the building no enemy units can be present in the
building. However, once control is gained enemy units can come and go in
that building without changing control. The opposition would have to clear
the building of all your units to change control.

IOW, one can have control of a building even if there are enemy units in
the building...as long as you still have at least one armed unit in said
building.

The term "sole control" is simple laziness. The designer didn't want to go
to the trouble to explain what was meant. In fact, there is no other way to
control a building other than "solely" since only one side or the other
will control the building.

I suspect the designer _intended_ that not only must control the building
but that no enemy units can be in the controlled building. Unfortunately
"sole control" is not nearly enough to say that.

Later-

Tater (One Mean Spud!)
Bruce Bakken
2004-01-23 19:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Sam.

I played this one a long time ago, so I pulled the card at had a look...

>
>Eric Henyey and I are playing "First to Strike" (Deluxe scenario 4). An SSR
>defines two buildings as factories and then states:
>
>"Hex bC4 contains a 2nd level building Location in that hex only. All other
>multi-hex, non-factory buildings contain ground/1st level only with an
>inherent stairwell in each hex (B23.22)."
>
>OK, I read this and say to my self - the only level 2 location on the map
>is
>hex bC4. But... There is a single hex building with a stairwell symbol in
>it
>(bK3). Eric thinks that this hex still contains a second level. What say
>the
>experts...
>

I think the SSR is specifically designating one hex of building bC4 as
containing a second level, and then defining the remaining "multi-hex,
non-factory" buildings: negating the stairwell symbol in such hexes (B23.23)
and turning those buildings into regular Two Story Houses (B23.22), i.e.
level 1 capacity.

Since there is no mention of a single hex building containing a stairwell, I
would play it that the building in question (I forgot to note the hex) does
have a Level 1 and Level 2 Location per B23.23.

I can't recall if that's how we played it 15 years ago, but that's how I
would play it now.

>Am I nuts, or what?
>

Is this a separate question? ;-)

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

>Sam
>
>
>
>

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Scott Jackson
2004-01-28 22:23:06 UTC
Permalink
>Eric Henyey and I are playing "First to Strike" (Deluxe scenario 4). An SSR
>defines two buildings as factories and then states:
>
>"Hex bC4 contains a 2nd level building Location in that hex only. All other
>multi-hex, non-factory buildings contain ground/1st level only with an
>inherent stairwell in each hex (B23.22)."
>
>OK, I read this and say to my self - the only level 2 location on the map
>is
>hex bC4. But... There is a single hex building with a stairwell symbol in
>it
>(bK3). Eric thinks that this hex still contains a second level. What say
>the
>experts...


Eric is correct, since single-hex buildings aren't affected by the SSR.


>Am I nuts, or what?


Yes, but so am I!!!

Scott Jackson
aka Stonewall

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